Curse

Epinephrine · May 10, 2005, 05:14 PM // 17:14

This is mentioned in a few posts, but always as a side topic; I think it deserves its own thread as it is pretty important.

Guilds like to share things. Infinite space might get silly, and there is little need to store hundreds of swords, axes and so on, but some degree of easily accessible Guild level storage is needed. It can be hard to pass even crafting supplies around when people are off in quests and missions and PvPing and play different hours etc...

Minimally, a repository for the crafting materials, without the 250 item stack. Crafting materials are pretty basic, and are a pain to continually generate and pass around; you may well have 1000s of wood floating around in your guild, but getting hold of a few hundred can be hard work. Dyes as well would be nice to have here, as people often save dyes for their end game armour, and it takes up a lot of storage.

Storage that can hold runes, weapon upgrades and such would also be nice, but not a necessity.

A system of "giving" an item to a player without the trade window hassle would be nice as well. After finishing a mission it will sometimes display items that you have not yet collected, saying "accept all?". If I know that Bob the Axeman needs an axe I'd like to be able to give it to him, even if he's not online. When he logs on it simply pops up as "Accept item?" just like the current system after a mission. (Make this only possible from in town, so it can't be exploited as a way to stick things in limbo while adventuring, and only receiveable when in a town/gathering point, like at the end of a mission, so that it doesn't interfere with game play? The object stays in your inventory/vault but is shaded (as it is being gifted); this way no gain of storage space is effected during the transfer. Right clicking on the shaded item could give the option of cancelling the gift, if the player accepts it the item vanishes - I'm sure there's a way to make this work without causing problems, and still allowing me to pass Bob the axe for when he next logs on or arrives in a town.)

SOT · May 10, 2005, 05:19 PM // 17:19

Well this answers my thread

=HT=Ingram · May 10, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

This was what I was saying back in the betas about having a guild armory and guild treasury at the guild hall. It would certainly make it easier to hold loot for the guild rather then waiting around for the person to get on to pick it up.

Something like Hold this at armory for membername... then they go to armory and ask for stuff left for them... maybe even have it page that person when they login that there is something at the armory for you. this may be more preferable to just having everyone in the guild see whats there and taking what they want... But either would be nice...

The guild treasury is something that has become a necessity... Because of the prices of capes and guild island and ect... We have been pooling gold between all guild members to get stuff and giving it to the guild leader when we see them. but it would be nice to have a deposit system to be able to drop it into a guild treasury and have the leader of the guild use that fund to buy guild items... And / or disperse it to members as needed...

The other feature I have been begging for is forming parties at the guild and allowing them to stay together when they go to other locations. That is the most frustrating part of the party system. you all meet at the guild then you have to find each other again in multi districts to reform the party, so you can go on a mission together. This was the guild map concept I mentioned. I know slightly off topic. but it was all part of the guild upgrades I mentioned back in Feb. This map would only have map locations that all in the formed party have been too. This makes it different from the personal warping map. Then the party can go to that location as a group and stay together. not having to find each other again.

thanks...

Ingram of Haz
Haz Team Guild

Qin Shi Huang · May 11, 2005, 12:04 PM // 12:04

I think a guild storage where anybody can store/retrieve without any kind of control might prove troublesome because mal-intentioned guildies might take it for their own profit (we never know, right?).
I'd like to see some kind of storage where we could store item YYY for payer ---. Other guildies that went to this vault should not see these items to avoid potential rivalities on who get's this or that. Oh, The guild leader and officers should, however, be able to see all these transactions but I'm not sure if they might control them. I mean, Player X puts an item for player Y. The guild leader comes in the next day, opens the vault and he sees the item from X to Y. Maybe he could be able to cancel it, but not to take it for himself. (Anyway, guildleaders are suposed to be respectfull people so they will not abuse their power of taking over those items for themselves. Once again, you never know...)
Humm this is rather confusing so I'll post it on a more readable way, along with other ideas.

Guild item transfer service, aka Guild FeDex
A place where a member should be able to place an item reserved for another member.

The storage place would be limited to, for instance, the equivalent room that a belt pouch has;
Eventually there would be a time limit for the transfer, to avoid data acumulation on servers because of this function;
If the reciever accepts the item the thing ends up here.
If the reciever rejects OR the time limit is exceeed, the item reverts back to the sender; The reciever might be notified that he missed the transaction, though.
Again, if the sender rejects the item (that got back to him) or the time limit is exceeded, the item either reverts for guild commom storage(if it is part of the allowed items)[more on that later] or disappears. In case the item the item is not allowed on guild commom storage(we'll get there soon) it is deleted. Case closed!
The guild leader and officers should be able to monitor all these tranfers AND in case they take any action(eventually the only action would be cancel - suggest any other if you have one) on them the sender and reciever should be notified to prevent abuse of power from the leaders.

I can't remember anything else on this one, feel free to make any suggestions about it

.

Now, for another guild storage feature...
Guild Comom Storage:
This would be the guild's piggy bank. Mostly because some guild items/features are expensive and everybody usually helps, so it would make easier to contribute and relief the leader(s) of the burden of paying it all.

It would have a reasonable storage place;
Alowable items here would be Gold/Platine and crafting materials;
Runes, salvage materials, weapons, tools, quest items (can't remember what else) wouldn't be allowed to be placed here.
It might have a log that told what each member contributed. It might either be a cumulative log (total equivalent ammount of gold deposited) or a detailed log(detailed says it all...) but this one would be limited to for instance, the last month, once again to lower storage requirements on the servers.
It might not have a log at all, only wood logs
Any member would be able to deposit allowed items here, as long as there would be room for it.
Any member could see the the contents of this vault but shouldn't be able to retrieve anything from there.
The leader and, eventually, officers are able to retrieve items from this place and a log, visible to all members, records those transactions.
In case the guild is good on wealth and the leader wants to share the piggy bank for everybody, there should be a window with all the members and their respective FeDex deposits where, using the Guild Guild FedeX (see above), items would be distributed among members. It should be up to the leader to ensure that the distribution would be fair (this is where the log comes in...). Only the leader should be allowed to use this function.
- The sender in this case would be something like "Guild storage"
- In case it is rejected it reverts back to the guild storage.
- In case it is rejected as well by the "Guild Storage" the items would disappear, Puff, nothing, nada, rien
To avoid a potencial deadlock that would lead to fill the whole storage room. It should be possible to either delete some item from the storage room (equivalent to a player droping an item from inventory when outside town) or eventually converting the selected item to gold, simillar to selling it to a merchant, but for 50% of it's value, or some other ratio to avoid abusing of this function. The ratio might vary depending on how often/how much value was sold through this function on a certain ammount of time. Typical situation: the more we sell, the cheaper it gets.

These functions would only be availabe only when in the Guild Hall. When outside the Guild Hall, the servers wouldn't have to worry if the member X has any item waiting for him through FeDex or not, and serverload caused by players outside the Guild Hall would be barelly the same.

I can't remember anything else right now. Suggestions are welcome, that's what this thread is about anyway...

Cheers.
--Qin.

Edit log:
- spelling, for a change.
- Some slight changes regarding the piggy bank to make it coherent.

dinglenut · May 11, 2005, 12:44 PM // 12:44

Don't know if anyone here has played kingdom of loathing? but just google it, anyways they had a guild hall setup like this: you had Log, Announcements, Storage, if anythingn was put in or taken from storage it was logged who took it or put it in, and you could put a lock on certain items that they could not be taken except by the person that put them in. It was a great system and allowed our entire guild to get what they needed and use it correctly.

So it could be done but that was a text based game.

Epinephrine · May 11, 2005, 02:08 PM // 14:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huang

Guild item transfer service, aka Guild FeDex
A place where a member should be able to place an item reserved for another member.

The storage place would be limited to, for instance, the equivalent room that a belt pouch has;
Eventually there would be a time limit for the transfer, to avoid data acumulation on servers because of this function;
If the reciever accepts the item the thing ends up here.
If the reciever rejects OR the time limit is exceeed, the item reverts back to the sender; The reciever might be notified that he missed the transaction, though.
Again, if the sender rejects the item (that got back to him) or the time limit is exceeded, the item either reverts for guild commom storage(if it is part of the allowed items)[more on that later] or disappears. In case the item the item is not allowed on guild commom storage(we'll get there soon) it is deleted. Case closed!
The guild leader and officers should be able to monitor all these tranfers AND in case they take any action(eventually the only action would be cancel - suggest any other if you have one) on them the sender and reciever should be notified to prevent abuse of power from the leaders.

I can't remember anything else on this one, feel free to make any suggestions about it

.

Sounds a little more complex than I would have it; it is basically though a way of "gifting" something to someone. I think if it simply resided in your vault/bags/pack though it'd still work fine, and be a very simple interface - shaded means that it is being given, it disappears when accepted. Unshade it to remove the offer. That way no new storage space is needed and nobody "gains" any storage from it. I don't think that a time imit is necessary if you have the constant reminder of the shaded square in your pack, and that way you don't need a check for time and so on, just cancel it if it is taking too long and you want the slot back. That way it isn't dependent on first making guild storage for it to revert to and can be employed instead of the clucky trade system (which is good that it is clunky, as it is needed to make offers, counter offer, modify and so on - but if it is a gift you don't need all that, just give and an accept button.) I don't see any need to involve the guild leader or anything, this "giving" should be available between any two people, just like a simplified trade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qin Shi Huang

Now, for another guild storage feature...
[b]Guild Comom Storage:
...
...

I edited out the content, as it is just above. If the "gifting" system is implemented I don't see a need to do gifting through the guild ahall as well, so item reserving for folks becomes a bit superfluous within the guild system. A log of donations/withdrawals would be fine if coded in, but I think getting "permission" all the time would be a real problem. As well, if there was limited storage it would be a pain to arrive and discover that it was full, and not have the ability to make room in it - That's why my minimal suggestion was a pile for each of the crafting materials, each of the dyes and possibly gold. By keeping it to a finite number of items, each of which is stackable there is no worry about whether there will be room for your item - there is automatically room for it, as it simply sits in its pile. Adapting the system to take weapons, runes etc would be much harder, and would require (as you mentioned) ways to remove items by destroying/selling them and so on. If kept to the basics it would be less likely to result in unhappiness and would be easy to make it more "fair" - simply allow people to withdraw up to some "credit limit" established by the guild. It could instead have a daily limit or some such, but as the crafting materials have market values that are tracked anyway it is very easy to determine the value of steel, charcoal, silk etc. and simply use those values to ensure that abuse doesn't happen. Even gold would fall into this category, and the guild leader would not need to withdraw the gold to make guild purchases - they come right out of the account, so even the leader has a credit limit, it just doesn't apply when it comes to purchases for the hall/guild.

I want it as simple as possible I guess, but that's just because the simpler it is the more likely it is to be implemented, and the fewer things that can go wrong.

Qin Shi Huang · May 11, 2005, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

If the "gifting" system is implemented I don't see a need to do gifting through the guild ahall as well, so item reserving for folks becomes a bit superfluous within the guild system.

Kind of. This reserving would be made through "Fedex" so it works pretty much the same way. In other words, this reservation would be simply instancing the fedex/gift code/function, with the difference that the sender would be guild storage instead of a member, thus some adjustments to those rules.
Oh, I see your shaded item on inventory... Good thinking, no need to time limits or fancy rules. Either the donator cancels or the reciever accepts. If this was to be done between ANY ramdom players, then the guild leader doesn't need to come in.

I was thinking at first that this would be made only between guild mates. If I understand well this shading system might represent a penalty to the donator and a bonus to the reciever. If the shaded item remains in inventory, you'll loose that storage room. On the other hand, the reciever will have "extra" storage - his inventory and an item waiting to be accepted. Despite not very significant, some people might use it for their advantage (of course, it can be canceled at any time

). My idea was that items in transit didn't take inventory space. Doh! That might be prone to abuse too, as you mentioned about "gaining" storage.

Cheers.
--Qin

Epinephrine · May 11, 2005, 02:49 PM // 14:49

Glad you like some of it - I agree that it'd be great to be able to store all the runes and such, but it gets really complex then, as you actually need all the things you are suggesting - ways to limit abuse, permission, logging of things, actual storage space etc... I like it, but I just get worried when things start sounding complex that exploits will occur or that it'll become unwieldy. Hopefully some system will come in though.

Alpha Tremere · May 11, 2005, 03:14 PM // 15:14

I really would love to see guild storage. I see heavy mechanics laid out by some members. I would prefer for there to BE the function even if simple, vs some overly complex scheme.
Frankliy, I am in a guild where I like and trust the leaders and other members. I would be happy with a few chests with say 20-100 storage slots each.
- Perhaps charge the guild for chests.
- How about a "treasure room" where you can throw junk on the ground. Like the home in morrowind. Some tables you can throw stuff on, and a big pile of gold in the middle pirate/dragon style. That would look nifty.

off topic: This could lead into a nifty system of "upgrades" to the guild hall. I would love to see improvements that can be purchased or quested for by the guild.
- How about a "training hall" where there are targetable/attackable dummies you can practice spell/attack combos on! It might be hard for us necros as a dummy can't be used as a corpse, but too bad, it's a dummy.

Qin Shi Huang · May 11, 2005, 03:56 PM // 15:56

Well, Alpha, we are suggesting here in case nobody has thought of it

.
The simpler we could get would be indeed a common chest, eventually with a fee payed by the leader. But other members could take advantage from that to use that storage space...
Everybody could insert and retrieve but it would be waay too anarchic, and could lead to potential problems between members.
Just like rules were created so that GW doesn't suffer from PKing, looting, KSing and so on, we try with these rules/mechanics find a way so that the system isn't prone to generating conflicts or leading to any kind of abuse.
The treasure room would be an awesome eye candy!

But having to save that info on the servers is a mess. Players might even be spread through the different continents... Also, I'm not sure how the guild hall works, regarding the map instantiation when we are inside (I've never been inside one

). In case it works like a town, i.e., the "map" is shared by everybody, it can be done but still consumes some resources on the servers. If it works like an explorable area, i.e., an instantiated map outside town, it becomes pretty hard to keep track of the items on the floor, their location, etc, and refreshing that kind of information as well as synchronizing different instantiations is a severe burden to the servers, if possible at all. But a pile of gold, which shape/size would be controlled by the ammount of gold stored in the vault would be sweet, just like Ali Baba's cave

Questing for extra storage and other features would be amusing IMO. However it should be made in such a way that all members had a chance to go through those chalenges, instead of doing it only once, get the bonus, and pronto, no more quest for other people since the guild already won that bonus. It might as well contribute to improve cooperaton between guildmembers due to the common (I think)objective of gaining as much features as possible to our guild. All in all it would work like a mission: we do it as many times as we want but only get the reward on the first time we complete it, instead of quests wich disappear from our map, once complete.

Cheers.
--Qin

butcherboy · May 11, 2005, 04:28 PM // 16:28

Guild "dues" would be nice - adjustable by the guild master as a % of the take on any gold picked up off the ground during an instance. Just to cover upkeep, etc of the guild. That would allow ladders to charge entry fees with the pot going to the winner.

A guild quest board would be nice that randomly gets quests assigned to it by the server. Sort of a jobs board type deal so the post-game wouldn't just be PvP actions.

On decorating, a guild trophy room would be nice. Curtains and all of that could be a distant 2nd concern.

A custom guild crests would be nice - maybe some sort of clickable deal where you pick out what you want the crest to represent and the crest is created in game for those not so artsy folks.
As stated in another thread, a PvE guild hall signet would be nice for those guilds who don't PvP. The PvP winning type folks would get the "Gold" edition of the signet that would allow for PvE and PvP guilding.

balmung · May 21, 2005, 07:50 PM // 19:50

i was going to post my own but apparently there are many posts on guild storage. not to post just for posting sakes, to help it get added like a petition. can we start some sort of petition or a survey to show them just how much we want this?